I can attest, when they claim no member of WM will ever go homeless, is a complete and total lie. Are you familiar with the website, No Eden Elseware? Are Calvinism and YEC accurately described as higher? Not every word from a person in a pulpit will always be perfect considering that they are imperfect humans and will admit it. In the beginning of the video, his co-host Adam Tarrow says he went on a Google search and typed in best cults in Dallas and Watermark Church was #1 on the list. Fellowship Church. so much pretense. A former member of Shekinah Church, who lost a lawsuit against Shinn in which she alleged he swindled her out of $4 million, has issued a dire warning for those who have been lured into the. I dont know what the tax rate is near Watermark but I doubt I could afford just the taxes & insurance on that house. What you need to know about Church Membership Covenants., The Aftermath: Stories from Former Watermark Church Members, The Aftermath Part II: Stories from Former Watermark Church Members, Family Ties: How Watermark Community Church is Alienating Families. Seems like theres a lot of hurting people with a lot to hide on this thread. Im heart broke and still excited to see what Lord and how He is going to carry out this. Our Staff Team serves, equips, and deploys the saints to live on-mission for the glory of our King. Additionally, unless you have seen all of the financial reports from the last 22 yrs, you have no idea how Wagner was compensated. Just study what a grandiose narcissist is and you will see why. OK. I am 63. . -, You write about the website, No Eden Elsewhere. He is a restorer and a life giver, even as we ALL come to him seeking forgiveness. that the elder board was ready to go in Todds leadership direction. Watermark is a community of faithful, creative, authentic Christ-followers who are united in one purpose: to be and make disciples of Jesus. At this link, you will find lots of information about how their community groups operate. The Yelp algorithm is strange. 4774 square feet also poor stewardship unless hes raising 8 kids or something. It appears to attract a fairly high income crowd if their building program is any indication of the amount of money coming into the church. It looks as if an elder finally stood up and refused to be silenced. Todd portrays it all as a divine God told me sort of thing. As the CG leader, I went first. Also resigned is David Leventhal, an elder and teaching pastor at Watermark, who said he had lost trust in Wagner's leadership. Todd Wagner, the embattled pastor of Watermark Church, a Dallas multisite megachurch with a pre-pandemic congregation of 20,000 people, has resigned his position as senior pastor and elder. Both Wagner and Leventhal will remain at Watermark as elders emeritus. Ive never heard of nor attended a church with such a position. Todd had 6 children living at home at the time he was gifted the home.. Some titles of articles written about Watermark Church. We have ministry partners with boots on the ground, helping to love and serve others by meeting their immediate physical and spiritual needs. Hes not the pastor of Watermark. Show me one bit of Biblical historicity in favor of the modern seeker-oriented megachurch. If I thought I couldnt work with someone I wouldnt be turning around and working with them. Why do you throw a stone (more likely without looking at yourselves first). I guess we just arent ALL as brave as Todd to resign or be open about confession or a need to step back. But not everyone wants that, and for those people there are lots of other churches that offer community groups, small groups, life groups, etc. Yet, Mickey Friedrich says: [dont] try and judge whose version of events is right or wrong, and that even Friedrich and Thompson land at a different place than (Leventhal and Wagner) regarding why weve arrived here.. AGAIN, I have absolutely NO proof and its pure speculation. You are experienced and know your Bible and subject. Thats a new one on me. Also resigned is David Leventhal, an elder and teaching pastor at Watermark, who said he had lost trust in Wagners leadership. 2 doctrinal statements create confusion over authentic belonging. Once your account is created, you'll be logged-in to this account. no one was threatening him he deliberately chose to live as the 1%, say yes & accept it, move in and make it his home. Several weeks after Leventhals resignation, Wagner separately decided to step down as senior pastor and elder, the churchs statement said.. What does being your authentic self really mean, in the context of community groups? He is a gifted teacher and speaker and could have made so much more money over the years with the opportunities he was given, but he didnt take them. My soul was touched. Grace Community Church will be paid $800,000 by Los Angeles County and the state of California after reaching a legal settlement to a lawsuit over COVID-19 restrictions in churches. Paul, thanks for the response. Wow. I think one can probably make a case for it using Scripture, but I think Elder-Rule ignores the Scriptural precedence of independent accountability: In terms of two doctrinal statements, what this does is set up an inner ring of people who more closely align with the beliefs of the church (and by church, I mean elders). Theyre all using so much jargon that its hard to figure out what any of it actually means. He could have thanked his friend for his generosity, and politely declined the gift, suggesting he would love for the proceeds from the resale of the house be donated to a local homeless charity instead. Scripture also says live your neighbor as yourself.folks many of you here have already missed that mark. Small group of meeting once a week. Wagner should have sold the home and elected to live a less extravagant neighborhood (Highland Park). The only thing I can discern between the lines is that something went very wrong. I wonder what is considered a lavish lifestyle. Where appropriate, upon request,. 1 Thessalonians 5:21 Messages; I expect to see Todd again, doing the same things in the future hell probably run another church the same way he intended to run Watermark. That is only for the married folk. If your Parents were not rich and someone. Set up and configure your eSignature workflows the way you want them. I am not sure what is wrong with elder rule since it is biblical. A Texas appeals court will decide whether the Watermark Community Church went too far in its attempt to save a church member's marriage. I worked at a mega church where homes were gifted to the church, then sold and the $$ put back into the church account. Mind Games The Bizarre & Controling Culture of 4774 sq ft house. All of the years I attended Kanakuk I had awesome and incredible counselors except for Todd. As I read Scripture I recognized it didn't have to be my opinion vs. Tony's anymore. Definitely they are important to Christian theology, but they fall within a spectrum of orthodox third-rank doctrines. but unfortunately christian powerbrokers have made christianity about things other than Jesus Christ. Our online editing platform simplifies the process for any action you may want to do with Church Membership. If we believe that, we should also have a desire to please God, and want the way we live our lives to reflect that desire. So you either choose to remain by completing the 4b questionnaire or you are no longer a member, [] a greatexample of unsafe community groups which verge on cults. Not that difficult, really. the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls. I know that there are many different types of church governance. For I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole purpose of God., Wagner also warned the congregation with words from the passage, stating that after my departure savage wolves will come among you, and from your own selves men will (rise up), speaking perverse things. Then, modifying Pauls description of his three years spent in Ephesus to Wagners 22 years at Watermark, Wagner added, Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of 22 years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears., The congregation at Watermark responded to Wagner with a standing ovation. In the video, Wagner said that the clarity to step down was not hasty, adding that the discernment process had started a year ago. Confession, of course! Below are screenshots of their membership covenant. Todd Wagner is a guy that would jump in a foxhole with me with the bullets are flying, and I for him. If a member doesnt leave in good standing, WM will pursue that person and enforce church discipline. Tim The information is on Watermark Churchs website: Voluntary Member Termination: Members who move from the local area, change churches, or no longer meet the requirements for active Membership may be removed from Watermark Membership.. If youre short on time, start at 27 minutes when the speakers starts explaining why people think Watermark is a cult. How many times have you actually talked to Todd? Log In. Re|Engage at other churches may be worthwhile. You may have the last word if you wish. Forgot account? I have first hand experience with a senior pastor doing exactly this and teaching younger families how to properly budget and cost of having kids. Ill happily answer any questions, but for any Believers here I would strongly encourage you to first take this to the Lord in prayer, then His word, and then ask yourself if its healthy or wise or appropriate to make such claims about a person / place you know almost nothing about. I take at face value Susan has hurt and I feel compassion for her. Also I probably would be off my depression meds. Many won't perform gay marriage. I will never forget the screams of desperation and loss I felt as a young Christian woman. Products. Just checking out the church and looking at the background info the house has tripled in value since the Wagners bought it 20 years ago hardly a 7 figure home when purchased. I dont mean to discredit anyones experience, but mine overall has been encouraging, and yes, challenging, but biblically sound. Thats the problem often times one comes on a hot seat and forgets one day would come that same thing that man have to face. i watched the video dont know how i got as far as i did i had to turn it off. Todd Wagner, senior pastor of Watermark Community Churcha multi-site megachurch in the Dallas area with an average attendance of 11,000announced yesterday that. Or, in this case, you live on as Elder Emeritus! Community groups are the epicenter of Watermark Church. In my next post Ill share another story from another former-Watermark member. Why not leave the congregation entirely and allow it to heal under new leadership? I think you may have missed a decimal point according to the link in the post his house (verified to be the correct Todd Wagner) was a little over $1.5 million as of 2019. Prestonwood Baptist also made the list (top 20) and its nowhere near a cult. I dont know folks.if you have to go online and record a video to explain how your church is not a cult..this might lead into a Jeff Foxworthy joke! have caused them to *go astray,*. Its a huge red flag to me about Todds character and understanding of God. Darren, I think I get where youre coming from with the idea of a teaching statement. Leventhal doesnt seem very interested in this whole thing Wagner appears attentive during Leventhals speech but Leventhal seems stand-offish toward Wagner. If youd like a suggestion for a charity outside of our church well gladly help you. They dont even take a collection in church! The whole situation reeks of status and power, neither of which is a good look for a pastor. According to Watermark Church, I guess we werent doing it right. This was the same concept as we moved on to adult Sunday school. True humility is replaced with a very shallow and false one and so they humble brag about how big a crowd they can draw. Move away 2.Join another (approved) church 3. agreed. Its extremely worrisome that they feel they have to hide and be afraid of what Watermark Church may say or do in response to them telling the truth about their abuse. Why is it that Im led to believe (Based on reports and personal experience) that one has to possess certain sociopathic traits in order to be a successful megachurch pastor? And some community groups are less intense. Seems there are some Watermark menbers Watermark Church does not believe that single ladies & gentlemen should be in coed community groups. This is absolutely nothing like a Joel Osteen situation. If you dont want to share your story you dont have to. Poor Todd. I have nothing to hide, and sharingRead more , As an ex-Watermark member (8 years), and former CG leader (6 years), I can say unequivocally that I had no problem sharing my financial information with my guys. Susan says she is now happy to be away from Watermark Church and is healing. even if 100% true (zero exaggeration or embroidery), it almost makes it sound like Todd was an unwitting victim of disproportionate generosity and was utterly helpless. A lower court has already ruled that the church is free to release private information about its members. Im with Scotty and Andy Wilson. It is kindness that brings people to repentance. Then there is the whole LakeRead more . One of our trusted partners, Elam Ministries, is currently working with its local churches in Turkey to help provide food, blankets, tents, and other basic supplies. Which by the way, most of north Dallas (including Lake Highlands) has experienced the same level of appreciation. Thanks for the reply. Secondly he says that even Jesus himself said things that might be considered cultish: If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:26. He said at the time that he was not guilty of disqualifying sin like sexual immorality, financial misconduct, or foul languagesomething Wagner reiterated when he announced his resignation. If you call Christ a savior then learn to make Him If you dont want to be a member at Watermark you dont have to be.Read more , There is a difference between positional authority and spiritual authority. If the leaders deem you unworthy of their support due to pride or sin struggle reasons, they will absolutely unequivocally unabashedly and with zero conscience or compassion, write you off. Problem with the churches these days is many in congregation will do same thing as Judas did, deny !! Pray snd ask the Lord for that, sure many here are upset, but not many know what has taken place fully, you judgmental hypocrites. Cant even begin to address this without feeling a sense of disappointment. covenant, In the Bible, can you name Our post-modern tendency is to use culture as a reference point, not the Bible. Give a gift of $30 or more to The Roys Report this month, and you will receive Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse by Dr. Lisa Oakley and Justin Humphreys. Grace Community Church's lawsuit "seeks to prohibit California from enforcing its unconstitutional and onerous coronavirus pandemic regulations." Link copied Aug. 14, 2020, 2:58 PM UTC I went home and felt a renewed sense of spirit. As you should be. R.w. Love you Todd The Watermark spokesperson explained that the church followed the Dallas Independent School District's "standard and customary process for this . 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